Recent Payout Complaints Valid
Posted by Administrator on 23 May 2007 at 11:15 am | Tagged as: OffShore Insiders
As many of you are aware, there are many sportsbooks that are simply taking a long time to get money to their players. Add Oddsmaker.com to the list. We have received complaints of up to a month to get paid. We contacted Customer Service at the sportsbook and almost immediately, got an offer from them to help with player issues. However, subsequent correspondence has gone unanswered. We were also given a contact at the Oddmaker who also initially appeared to be helpful. Again, once the complaints started rolling in we were told that ‘he simply does not have time’ to help and wanted to ‘nip this in the bud before I start to get these every week’. We are unable to find anyone at this sportsbook that is willing to help out with player payout issues, or maybe they just do not know when some of these payouts will arrive for players.
So, unlike Sportsbook.com, BetUS and a slew of others where we are able to get assistance from management with the current payout situation offshore…..if you have a problem at Oddsmaker, you are on your own.
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Watch out!!! Bodog is not paying their players. I withdrew my money on the 12th of April. The next day the cash-out was accepted, and now, 41 days later, I have not seen a dime. I have been given numerous excuses, from march madness delays to “the check is in the mail”. Deposit with caution because you will probably not see your money again!!!
We have looked into the issue raised above regarding a long wait at Bodog.
From the payout manager at Bodog:
“Some of our clients have experienced longer than normal wait times and, unfortunately, Mr. Rupp was one of these customers. We have upgraded his payout to check by courier and he can expect to receive it Tuesday.”
This is a note to all players: We had to email this player to find out the specifics of his account information and it delayed our efforts by an entire day. We urge you to use our complaint form prior to making a post such as this. This form can be found at http://www.osga.com/Complaint_form.htm.
I am still waiting for a payout from this book via echeck. Could someone (possibly Jim) please update me on their latest excuse?
Thanks
Believe me phillip you will never see a dime. Not one is worse then the other, there all the same, crooked.
I just started with bodog and I hav’nt yet asked for a payout, but when inquiring payout info from a superviser/manager his response was way too suspect and sounded like he was bullshitting making up excuses about vague long delays because of changes/laws/US
Bet33 is not only lieing and ripping me off but harrasing, laughing, and threatening not to pay at all. They act as if they are above or beyond reproach as if it is too easy to steal your money. I am not going to let them get away with this shit, they have pushed me too far! I am sure that working together coopertivly is one key way to approach some these assholes!
I requested for my payout on May 6th and it has been a month and still nothing. When I call Bodog, they say it is taking longer than usual and they are not giving time frames of when the check will arrive. Does anyone know if this was all a scam?
Hello Erik,
We are working diligently with players to help expedite payouts from Bodog. Bodog is taking quite a while to pay some players, but as far as we know - everyone does eventually get their payouts. You are welcome to use our complaint form at http://www.osga.com/Complaint_form.htm.
I requested a payout by Check from oddsmaker.com after 3+ weeks. I deposited the check with my bank only to find out 4 days later that they were unable to verify the funds from the check and that the check was what they believed to be a counterfeit. Not only did I wait forever to receive my withdrawl but I got a fraudulent check Fed ex’d to me.
Add HOLLYWOODSPORTSBOOK to your list of nonpayers. It’s been 7 WEEKS since my withdrawal request for my $400 and it’s been nothing but stalling tactics and harassment. My request for a tracking and check# has yielded no response. I’m not the only one
Hello Roy,
We contacted Hollywood and your check was sent on the 10th of July. It should arrive this week.
Jim
i cant seem to understand why i can not get paid. i made a withdraw on the 19 of may and somehow they seem to think that 20 days means till the 15 of june… i am a loyal bodog customer and have never had any problems before now… but for the first time when i called customer service i was brushed off and basically told by the person at bodog to get lost and that i had more time to wait…. extremely unsatisfied with the service and will be attempting to remove my bankroll to a safer institution if the situation doesnt improve
i wish to state that bodog has rectified the situation… i received a fedex check after my posting and another call to bodog… i am satisfied and hope that this doesnt happen again… i still think bodog has the best customer service in the industry….i was told by david at bodog on my last call that it is tough to get people to write the checks for bodog and that they are all being processed…they apparently only have 1 vendor that will write checks for everyone who plays and that they are being written in batches… i am now better informed and feel that my money is safe there… my only wish is that the first person that i spoke with had been informative insted of to busy…..
I’ve requested a payout by courier 1 month ago. Bodog has not sent me my tracking number and gives excuse after excuse. Each time i call, they say that they will follow up and let me know about the delay; no one calls back. I email the service department and all I get is a generic response. I am so fed up with them. I believe they are SCAMMERS. I’ve sent over 10 emails and made more than 5 calls.
NOTE: I tried opening the complaint form, but an error occured. I apologize, but I wanted to get the message out that bodog does not payout.
Hey Risky,
We did finally get in touch with you and after contacting Bodog found that your check was on the way. I believe that you sent us an email that the check has been received.
Glad to have been of service.
Bodog confirmed today they are no longer paying out to the states. I requested a payout on April 19th, 2008. Was told the check was mailed the beginning of June. Called on June 24th was informed check was mail the same day and credited with a bonus. Call today July 1st, 2008 and informed that Bodog no longer pays out to residents of the US.
Well that sucks. Live and learn.
Michelle
Michelle,
I just read your post and find it hard to believe that Bodog cannot pay to the US ….
We are checking on this and will report back ASAP.
Hi Michelle,
We alerted Bodog to your post and they were able to find you issue in their system.
From Bodog Management:
“At no point did our Supervisor suggest that we are not paying out US clients, in fact quite the contrary, he apologized for the delays and guaranteed that this client would receive her funds. There is absolutely no truth to her statement that we are not paying out US clients.”
Bodog is solid and the money does always arrive, however, they are taking some time to get check to US customers. Unfortunately, like many offshore books, they are at the mercy of thier processing companies.
Michelle, please post when your check does finally arrive.
requested check by mail 5-23-08 still not got it
requested another check today, notice no check by mail anymore by courier only.
probably will not get that either
OSGA and Members I feel all of your pain. I have been effected more than once by sportsbook.com’s BS with their processors over the past few years. Sportsbook cannot send millions of dollars in bad checks to gamblers and continue to not face any consequences.
The problem seems to point to Zip Payments, not Graapa. Sportsbook managers say currently an estimated 5,000 checks worth $4-5 million were bad checks from that “one batch alone”, and that they are trying to “recover the monies” from their processor. I hate to tell you all, but as of this morning, Sportsbook upper management indicated there is no current processor for sportsbook.com other than one small processor who they only use to wire funds to large clients who want over $5,000 withdrawn.
So what does that mean- well, all pending transactions that have “been processed” but that have not been sent out WILL NOT GO OUT, and those that have gone out ARE MOST LIKELY ALSO BAD CHECKS (both according to upper management). Even more interesting and frustrating at the same time, Sportsbook.com has no idea what checks that have gone out are bad, and which ones are not- they have absolutely no idea where they stand unless the client calls them to let them know that their check has bounced- they are absolutely incapable over there!!!
Requested a cashout on June 12th,2008 as of July 16th, they tell me that they are having problems sending dollars to US clients. Said may take up to 5 weeks to resolve this problem. What a bunch of B.S.
There web site sez nothing about the problem when you go to the cashier to purchase chips. More B.S.
Either they are crooks or in financial ruin, in either case I will not use their site again.
Any suggestions on how to re-coup my money will be appreciated.
Hey Dan,
One thing you can do is get some assistance from us. To enlist the help of OSGA fill out our complaint form. Go to http://www.osga.com/Complaint_form.htm and fill in the blanks. Though members get priority complaint response, we will make an inquiry on your behalf.
Received and deposited check from Bodog all was fine until check bounce as account closed. Bodog sucks the big one. It wouldn’t have been so bad except for all my
nsf fees. They credited 10 dollars to my account and still will not pay out..
I requested a payout May 12th didnt get my check until June 30th…checked bounced. Now bodog has credited my account with the amount I requested and has asked that I resubmit. I called and was instructed to submit through Money Gram. This is the response I got —Thank you for your payout request. Note that as per our payout policies, your payout will be processed via Check by Courier rather than Money Transfer since you have not deposited through the Money Transfer method. If I get my check when expected I will have waited 80 business days before seeing a check.(hopefully this one doesnt bounce)
I received my Bodoglife payout by Zip Payments. Sent it in and got credit for the money. I went on vacation and my account is overdrawn, and I have been charged for bounced check. I called and they said to fax them the statement showing fees, and fax a copy of the bounced check. I said to just stop payment on the check they sent me and to overnight me a check now. I hear Zip is out of business. They said they would send it to me by courier in 10 business days after getting my fax. It better not take long as it took two months to get it in the first place. I’m thinking about withdrawing all my money.
bodog bonced my check said fax us check and fees will repay problems with procesors.It was a LAS VEGAS bank check please do not depsit will bounce.If this is how they do buisness we should contact 20/20 or some other news outlet to let people know.
Feds Hound Bodog: Millions of Dollars Seized
Submitted by Guest on Wed, 07/30/2008 - 19:32.
The U.S. government recently seized $24 million from bank accounts linked to Bodog, the giant, illegal-under-U.S.-law Internet gaming operation founded by Canadian tycoon Calvin Ayre.
Federal filings make very clear that a serious criminal investigation of the Bodog enterprise is ongoing. At a minimum, word of the seizures is likely to rattle the confidence of U.S.-based online gamblers that they will receive their winnings, not only from Bodog but from the industry’s other remaining participants.
Detailed in court filings in a Baltimore federal court, the Bodog-related seizures from such well-known institutions as Wachovia (nyse: WB - news - people ), Bank of America (nyse: BAC - news - people ), SunTrust Banks (nyse: STI - news - people ) and Regions Bank, a unit of Regions Financial (nyse: RF - news - people ), increase the possibility of criminal action against Ayre himself. There already has been published speculation in his native Canada that he is under secret indictment somewhere in the U.S.
The U.S. attorney’s office in Baltimore, which launched the two lawsuits to take the $24 million, did not respond to a request for comment.
The flamboyant Ayre–media reports often call him a “playboy”–is now believed to be in Antigua and Barbuda, a country in the eastern Caribbean. He has denied being on the lam. A request on Wednesday for comment from Ayre, sent through the Web site of his Antigua-based Calvin Ayre Foundation, was not immediately returned. Nor were call and e-mail messages sent to public relations contacts listed on Bodog’s Web site.
In early 2006 Ayre rocketed to international prominence–and the cover of Forbes magazine’ annual issue on the world’s billionaires–for his stewardship from Costa Rica of Bodog Entertainment Group and his open flouting of authorities in the U.S., his major market. The story headline: “Catch Me If You Can.” The operation was said at the time to be handling $7.3 billion yearly in poker, casino and sports event wagers.
But since then, Ayre has been the subject of law-enforcement raids abroad and growing regulatory scrutiny, especially in the U.S. In late 2006 President Bush signed a law strengthening the prohibition on online gambling. Ayre fell off the Forbes worldwide billionaires list after just one year, amid a decline in his industry’s fortunes.
In overall actions against the industry, federal prosecutors in New York have charged executives of Neteller with illegally processing online gaming transactions. This summer, Canada’s ESI Entertainment Systems, an Internet payment business, entered into a “deferred prosecution agreement” with the same prosecutors. The company admitted to criminal wrongdoing and agreed to disgorge $9.1 million in criminal proceeds for its role in processing $2 billion in Internet gambling payments for hundreds of thousands of U.S. customers. Criminal cases have been started against various online gambling shops.
Ayre has been trying to put legal distance between himself and the operation he founded in the 1990s. For years its business was run through Internet servers belonging to Mohawk Internet Technologies, located on the Kahnawake Reserve Indian reservation in Quebec, Canada. In September 2007 Bodog said its North American operations would be licensed to Morris Mohawk Group, also located on the reservation and run by tribal chief Alwyn Morris.
Three months ago, Ayre, now 47, said he had transferred ownership of Bodog itself to Morris Mohawk Group. “It’s true; I’m packing it in,” Ayre wrote on a Web site.
Court filings in Maryland say that in January and February a total of $14.2 million was seized from accounts in the name of JBL Services and Transaction Solutions at Wachovia, Regions Bank, Bank of America and Sun Trust Bank. In July, filings say, another $9.9 million was found in eight accounts at Nevada State Bank, a unit of Zion Bancorporation (nasdaq: ZION - news - people ), in the name of Zaftig Instantly Processed Payments, doing business as ZipPayments.com. The companies are described as helping to facilitate parts of the Bodog operation.
The court papers detail an elaborate international structure put together to allow Bodog to collect money and write checks to winning gamblers in the U.S. One affidavit by Randall S. Carrow, a special agent with the U.S. Internal Revenue Service’s Criminal Investigation Division, said that $248 million involving entities linked to Bodog was processed through Wachovia Bank, from which $11 million of the $24 million was seized.
In a statement to Forbes, Wachovia said the bank cooperated with law enforcement, doesn’t knowingly allow Internet gaming operations to open accounts, and the funds ending up at the bank were in accounts of a third-party credit card servicer. The statement also hinted that various accounts might have been kept open at the request of investigators to aid their efforts.
According to Carrow’s detailed sworn statements, the IRS’s Criminal Investigation Division started looking at Bodog in 2003 and opened a formal probe in 2006. The extensive sleuthing has involved close examination of public and bank records, the enlisting of unnamed cooperating witnesses and informants, and undercover efforts to make bets on football and collect winnings.
Ayre, says Carrow’s statement, is president of Middleton Financial, a Nevada corporation described as a key cog in the U.S. Bodog machinery, as well as Stratham Finance, said to be based in Malta. Other entities linked to Ayre in the court filings are Gateway (nyse: GTW - news - people ) Financial Services, EBanx Ltd., Gregor Financial Ltd. and Calvtek Industries. The filings list dozens of businesses involved in processing Bodog transactions.
The ongoing federal pressure to disrupt Bodog’s financial transactions may be bearing fruit. Carrow’s affidavits say several checks issued from Bodog to its undercover gambler bounced.
A break in the inquiry came in May, one of Carrow’s affidavits says, when an undercover operative for “another state’s gambling commission” received a check that didn’t bounce from an account at Nevada State Bank, which is headquartered in Las Vegas. That led to the $9.9 million seizure this month. The bank had no immediate comment.
Carrow’s affidavits were filed in connection with the U.S.’s successful efforts to get a federal judge to authorize the seizures. But to keep the money permanently, federal prosecutors must file a civil lawsuit and allow a challenge by anyone with a claimed interest. No one fought the $14.2 million seizure, and it was ordered forfeited to the feds. The lawsuit over the $9.9 million–its official name is United States of America v. $9,869,283.05–was just filed.
Even before the advent of Bodog, Ayre carried considerable baggage. Close family members were convicted of drug trafficking. (Ayer himself was never charged.) In 1996 Ayre was banned for 20 years from the British Columbia securities industry for stock market offenses. By that time, he was already moving into online gaming.
“One of the things that drives me is the excitement that I could fail,” he told Forbes in 2006. “What better buzz can you get?”
So what do we do now if we want a payout from Bodog?
Hi Jdog,
I would ask them for a bank wire or dump your money into there bodog poker site to a guy that’s willing to hold off the long payout.
Where’s my damn money?
I really have no excuse other than:
a) I have been taking some vacation.
b) I honestly hoped that this would take care of itself before I had to get involved.
c) I am a notorious procrastinator.
d) This post took a whole lot longer to write than I thought it would.
I know those are pretty shitty excuses, but that’s the best I can give you.
Also, I should mention that during this post I am not going to bother trying to defend some of the despicable customer service stories that I have read on the forum recently. To that end, we are working diligently on our end to try to mitigate some of the complaints, but as you will see it is usually not a matter of a casino intentionally trying to screw over their customers, rather it is a mostly unavoidable situation that they are scrambling to deal with - and they might not have an immediately “acceptable” solution that pleases everybody.
Anyway, the point of this blog post is really to give people a short bit of background on how payment systems work online, how they can get messed up, where the government interference hurts, and hopefully a few ideas on how to mitigate their exposure.
I’m not going to delve too deeply into the methods that a lot of companies use - mainly because I don’t know a lot of it - but I will try to give you all a good overview of the situation that your average online gambling company has to deal with on a daily basis.
Question: How come sites seem to have no problem accepting my money, but then can’t seem to pay me?
This is a great question, as it cuts to the very nature of the problem.
First of all, the methods companies use to accept your deposits are completely different from the methods used for payouts. I think this should be pretty obvious to anybody who has ever requested a payout. Simply put, they can’t just dump your money back onto your credit card. That won’t work. So they have to use different methods for payments.
But let’s go into a bit of detail.
Question: How do deposits work, and why are they more reliable then withdrawals?
Let’s assume that credit cards are the the foundation of all e commerce, because they are. Thirty years ago, most people paid for stuff with cash. Now, most people use plastic. And the Internet has only made credit cards more important.
So given that assumption, you realize that virtually every commercial site on the ‘Net has the ability to accept credit cards in one form or another. They might be selling clothes, furniture, music, services, whatever - but they accept credit cards. In short, there are literally millions of sites online that are willing to accept your plastic.
That sheer volume of ongoing online businesses makes it very easy to disguise online gaming deposits from being detected by American authorities.
How?
It’s very easy. It goes something like this:
1) Open up a company in, say, Panama and call it “Miguel’s Cool Panama Hats”, or better yet “Panama 1234 S.A.”. While you are at it, open up like five more companies too, each in different business sectors and with preferably different owners listed.
2) Get a credit card merchant account for those business.
3) Use one of those companies to accept your credit card charges for your online gambling business.
4) Make sure you empty out the account every morning, in case the US government tries to get your company closed.
5) If the government does shut that company down, immediately switch your processing to one of your other companies.
6) Go to #3.
This round-robin of businesses makes it virtually impossible for the US authorities to keep on top of all of the deposits. It’s a waste of time. In the time it takes to shut down one company, online gambling companies can create and set up two more replacements.
But paying customers is a completely different beast.
Question: How do withdrawals work, and why are they more prone to problems?
The one thing that separates online gaming from those millions of other online businesses is the fact that gaming sites need to be able to pay back their customers, which is something that the average company only rarely has to do - and credit card companies do not look kindly upon chargebacks and refunds.
And customers do not look kindly on being paid in goods and services, rather than cold hard cash, so there is only one option that pleases everybody… checks.
And that is where the trouble starts.
Firstly, the UIGEA has made it illegal for American banks to deal with online gambling companies, so it’s not like your online casino can simply cut you a check from its account at Citibank Panama.
Why? Because any basic US Department of Justice investigation will work like this:
Step 1: Sign up and deposit at a casino.
Step 2: Trace that deposit and get that company closed. This is not a big problem for the casino, as described above, but it’s still part of the process..
Step 3: Request a payout.
Step 4: Trace the check, and get that bank account closed. Also try to get the issuing bank officially reprimanded for breaking the rules of the UIGEA. If happens often enough, the bank may lose its privilege to do business with American financial institutions. This is a time-consuming and political process, but if it happens, it could be devastating to the bank involved.
Step 5: Repeat.
Now, any company needs a bank account to do business, so it is imperative that online companies keep one bank account clean and free from suspicion. And as Step 4 illustrates, it’s not always easy for online gaming companies to find local banks willing to have them as customers. The risk is too high. Once you find a bank, you protect it and do nothing to jeopardize that relationship.
So in order to handle payouts, they need to find a bank or a third party willing to take this risk.
Also keep in mind that this is not just one transaction. Your average online gambling company needs the ability to cut thousands and thousands of checks per year. And the bigger the company, the more checks that have to be cut. At certain periods, like say after the SuperBowl, they might have to cut literally hundreds of checks per day.
The only way to do this efficiently without putting your banking in jeopardy is to involve a third party… the payment processor.
Question: What is a payment processor?
What these payment processing companies do is basically print checks for a living. They receive a printout each day from your casino, listing the names and amounts for all outgoing checks. They print and send them off. If all goes well, you get your check in a few days and nobody is the wiser.
Now, I’m not sure exactly how these payment processors manage to avoid the pitfalls involved in issuing checks, because everybody does it a bit differently. They might be officially listed as payroll processors, or maybe they are affiliated with banks (or certain bank managers) that are more willing to take risks. Suffice to say, each company has it’s own secret sauce that it uses to sneak around the rules - it’s a highly secretive business, as you might imagine.
With great risk, things naturally become very costly. If you are a processor with a method that works, you can charge exorbitant fees to casinos for each check. Plus, what these processors do is request a huge security deposit before ever cutting a single check. It really is an extortion-based business model, because the casinos have little choice but to pay up.
But in the processor’s defense, they are taking a big risk too. And not to put too fine a point on it, but as Step 4 illustrates, sooner or later these processors are probably going to get shut down. And when they do, it’s pretty certain that they will never be able to do business in that manner ever again. Plus, all of the money sitting in the processor’s bank account will probably be seized as well.
The bottom line is that these payment processors are involved in a very short-term business, and need to protect themselves too.
But I digress… Depending on the size of the casino, this security deposit might be anywhere from $100K up to literally millions of dollars. Plus, the casino needs to constantly be transferring funds to this processor to handle the day-to-day issuing of checks. In the event of a meltdown, that is a LOT of money that can go down the drain very quickly.
So what we have here is a very risky, but very lucrative, short-term business. You can imagine what kind of entrepreneur is involved here.
In short, there are two types of payment processors. The honest guys who try to put together a good process and avoid getting caught for as long as possible, and then there are the guys who talk a good game but really are more interested in receiving as many security deposits as they can before mysteriously disappearing and claiming to have been shut down. And from the casino’s standpoint, there really isn’t any reliable way to tell the good guys from the bad.
Question: How does the processing get messed up?
Once the inevitable happens and a processor has gotten shut down, the left over rubble is nearly impossible to sort out.
Since it is involving a third-party, the casino is out of the loop. They really have no immediate way of knowing which checks got cashed, and which checks bounced. It isn’t easy to fix a problem when you have no immediate information.
- Is the problem with the processor?
- Is the problem with the customers’ bank?
- Are we being scammed by the payment processor?
- Are we being scammed by a syndicate of players (it happens) trying to imitate a meltdown?
- Is it an isolated case involving one particular bank, or is it a wide-spread issue involving a change in American government regulations?
All the casino can do is try to isolate which people are complaining, and try to verify their story - which isn’t easy when the third-party processor may or may not be even answering the phone.
The casino doesn’t know which players are being honest about the situation and which are trying to capitalize on the confusion to receive an extra payout. Not to mention the fact that the casino has just lost hundreds of thousands of dollars - perhaps millions - and needs to find a new and reliable processor ASAP.
In short, there’s a lot going on and the only thing that can sort it out is time and patience.
As I mentioned above, I can not defend any of the terrible customer service stories I have heard, but I can also imagine how frustrating it is for the poor customer service agents who are suddenly dealing with some very pissed off and distrustful customers - and meanwhile their managers still don’t even know what the problem is yet or how to fix it. And as a general rule, nothing will ever please everybody.
So, now you can see where some of the payment problems stem.
Question: How come some casinos seem to have more problems than others?
Simple. It is a matter of visibility.
The online gambling issue in America, at its heart, is a political issue. The DOJ is only really interested in this industry simply because of companies such as Bodog, who made their name by rubbing their business in the face of the American authorities. And the authorities are naturally going to try to first target the operations that draw the most attention.
So you can consider companies like Bodog to be a primary target - again and again. If I was a DOJ employee, I would probably dedicate my Mondays to signing up at Bodog, and my Fridays to shutting down their payment processors. In fact, there probably is somebody at the DOJ with that exact job description. This probably explains why Bodog has recently issued a warning that it could take up to 40 days for some customers to get paid.
Then there are companies like Sportsbook.com, who everybody knows are still huge even if they don’t spend as much time trying to piss off American authorities. They are going to run into occasional problems, but they aren’t going to get targeted nearly as much as the true publicity hounds. But when a company the size of Sportsbook runs into problems, it will affects hundreds or thousands of customers, instead of just a few dozen.
Question: If a company is having processing problems, then why don’t they mention it on their site before I sign up?
This is a great question, and one for which I really don’t have a satisfactory answer.
Processing problems are sporadic. Things can be working perfectly today and completely broken tomorrow. And once an alternative processor is found, it can be fixed up again in hours. And this fact applies to EVERY operation that accepts American customers. So really, every casino might be only a matter of hours away from having major processing problems.
And if they have an existing problem, they might be only hours away from fixing the problem, which wouldn’t affect new players anyway. Who knows? They might have already fixed the problem, twice, only to have it pop up again?
So, if it were up to me, EVERY online gambling company should have a message on their site explaining this situation, and noting that at any given time their payment processing system might break.
But they don’t. And they won’t. Bottom line, it is a stupid business move. Why should one site put a warning on their site and cause themselves to lose customers when their competition won’t do the same thing?
So I have no answer to that question other than to say, “Good luck finding a company in any business that would publicize such a problem.”
Maybe you think it is unethical to operate a business in that manner, but in that case ALL online casinos accepting American customers are acting unethically. And that situation won’t change until the UIGEA is repealed and the industry gets regulated.
I’m sorry, but all I can say is: Get over it.
Question: So what can I do?
Well, first of all, get your head out of the clouds!
You are participating in an activity that the American government - rightly or wrongly - considers illegal. You have to understand that sooner or later, processing problems are going to happen to your favorite casino. It is just a matter of time. No matter what sportsbook you use, sooner or later they will get jammed up by a processor. In that situation, they will lose hundreds of thousands of dollars at a minimum, and they will also bounce a few checks too.
When it happens, you can choose to kick and scream and promise to never do business with that operation again, but that won’t do anything to get your money any quicker. It is a bad situation for everybody. Especially at this time of year leading into football season, no company wants their name plastered all over the posting forums as a slow-paying company. They want you to get your money, believe me. It just takes time. Yelling about it won’t fix it. It might make you feel better for a few minutes, but that is about it.
Another common attitude that needs adjusting is the idea that you are somehow entitled to the most perfect service in every situation. This is not Walmart where the customer gets whatever he wants if he yells loud enough. Again, if you are American, then remember that you are technically breaking the law!
Yes, these companies are making money off of you, but they are also providing you with a service that you otherwise could only receive from a guy named Bobby Fingers, who can usually be found in the corner of a very dark bar. If you want to avoid the potential of processing problems, go deal with Bobby. If you want to avoid the potential problem of broken thumbs, then you will have to accept that sometimes there will be periods during which your online gambling experience is less than optimal.
Question: So what is better? Big attention-seeking operations with deep pockets, or smaller operations that stay under the radar?
This is the key question, because each has their positives and drawbacks.
Bigger companies are definitely going to draw more attention from authorities, and therefore have more frequent processing problems. But they also are more able to shrug off a period of bad press without so much as a blink. Plus they are more likely to have a wider range of services and features that make the day-to-day use of their site more enjoyable during the good times.
On the other hand, smaller operations might be a lot less likely to suffer major processing problems, but when they finally do get hit, it might be a lot more likely to cause a major financial meltdown that, combined with the bad publicity, could put their entire company in jeopardy.
Let’s face it. Sportsbook.com is suffering some bad publicity right now. But they are big enough to know that it will eventually all get settled, and they’ll just keep rolling along. There is zero chance they are going out of business. On the other hand, if a smaller operation started suffering the problems and bad press that Sportsbook is getting right now, it could be fatal. But the smaller operation is less likely to run into that situation.
Big or small? It’s a tough choice with no correct answer, and not a choice that anybody should have to make, but to paraphrase Hyman Roth, this is the hobby we have chosen.
Unfortunately, until the laws get changed, this is a situation that we will have to live with. It might even become more common in the future.
NOTE: When I use words like “big” and “small”, I am not referring to companies that advertise on Covers.com. I consider ALL of the companies on the Covers Top Sportsbooks List to be strong and resourceful enough to withstand a processing snafu, but I acknowledge the fact that there are other operations out there (not on our list) that people consider to be viable alternatives.
I also accept that some of the operations on the Covers list are large enough to attract more attention from authorities. I will leave it up to the reader to decide which companies fall into the high-risk category, since that really is a subjective opinion.
Now matter what your opinion is, nobody wants to get stuck in a bad situation and should do their utmost to avoid being in that position in the first place.
Question: So how can I minimize my vulnerability?
If you want to play online, you have to accept the fact that the American government is going to do its best to persecute these companies and try to make you lose your money. The American government is NOT interested in protecting you.
Personally, I think the best remedy is to simply try to avoid requesting payments by check. Sure, checks are easiest, quickest and cheapest, but it is also the method that is most likely to get jammed up. So why bother, especially when there are other methods such as ACH or bank wires or e-wallets?
If you are not willing to cough up a couple of extra bucks or take a few minutes to ensure that your payment is getting some special attention, then you are a lot more likely to get your check caught in the net.
Take the initiative, folks!
These companies already deal with enough bullshit trying to keep their business going in this legal environment. If you are going to put in zero effort on your side to protect your money, then you can’t expect them to be 100% culpable when things go wrong along the way. And if something does go wrong, you have to accept that it was YOU who chose the cheap payment method.
So try to deal with companies that have “alternative” payment methods, and once you get your money deposited, immediately get yourself signed up with one of their alternatives. That way, even if they do get jammed up by a check processor, it is a LOT less likely to directly affect you.
That’s about all I can think to say right now.
I need a drink.
I Have requested my payment on June 16 of 2008 from Bodoglife.com and keep getting the run around. First they tell me there is a 20 business day wait, and then they go ahead and change it to 40 day business wait. This is ridiculous, to have a customer wait that long for a simple payout. I hope Bodoglife.com can rectify this. I have not received a tracking number and keep getting the run around. Beware people, do not use BODOGLIFE.com.
I requested and had processed a payout on June 9th 2008 with Bodog. I had at first requested a western union or moneygram payout since it seemed to be faster. I was then told that it wasnt eligible for me since i never deposited using that method. They said it would be sent through courier in about 20 business days and i would receive the tracking number. After 22 bus days i finally emailed them and they said it would be a little longer they were having delays. After an email every other day for a week i was told it would be 40 business days. My last email response was 2 days ago saying it is only the 38th day and it should be coming soon Not counting July 4th which im not sure if they count but im pretty sure its over 40 business days now and still nothing. I have no more confidence in Bodog and my payout is only $200. I’d be sick if it was a large one like previous ones im reading. Is there any hope
I had the feeling I was getting the run around. I just requested a payout from BODOG for 2k and was told it would take 40 days. I requested western union and was told that was not possible because it is not how I deposited the funds. I am pretty surprised by this. I have been with them for about 5 years and never had any problems until now
Received a check from Bodog for a few K covering two separate cash out dates from June 1st 2008 and July 1st 2008.
I requested a payout of 1,100.00 on June 14th. I have heard lots of excuses but they said I would be paid within 40 business days. Today is 39 business days and no tracking number nothing. The last email with bodog says there may be slight delays…UGH
Requested a payout via check on June 18th. Nothing. Excuses, that’s it. After reading several replies on this blog, I feel completely deflated. I got fucked on this gig. Calvin Ayers can suck my cock.
50 business days in no damn payout, never using them i agree wit the posts right ahead of mine, and its sad because they got good reviews before now from what i have seen, they need 2 be real none of us are stupid stop with the runaround, so they got money seized from them then say that let people know u cant payout right now and stop taking people’s money
payout did arrive today fedex
Are checks still bouncing or is the problem cleared up? I am waiting on 4 payments all from mid june…
i think we all will get our money
Hello Guys,
We have gotten dozens of players who are in the same boat as many of you - waiting for money. We cannot stress enough that eventually everybody does get paid. The real shame here is that Bodog has plenty of money; it’s just that with the recent DOJ closing of one of their check companies, their options are limited and new processors may be gun-shy of doing business with them. It looks like MoneyGram is gone for them as an option right now as well.
We will keep you updated as to Bodog’s progress towards rectifying this situation in this space.
Are we ALL CHUMPS? I guess so! Having read the postings here regarding BoDog(life).com…it brings to (my) mind the horror stories of English Spotrs Bettign (ESB) in the early 2000’s and most recently the “gottcha” position of BetOnSports.com. Just exactly how HARD UP are we (starved, might be a better word) to place a wager on an event, just so that we can enjoy being “in action”. So…..are we ALL CHUMPS? I guess so…at least for the time being. Sam Henry 8-24-08
Oops! I intended to include this post as a “PS” on my previous post, above.
Thank you, thank you, thank you to Rich Osborne (posting of 7-31-08) for taking the time to extensively explain the difference between the deposit & payout methods. I, for one, truly appreciate the time that you took to post this for all to see.
However, I still maintain my position as stated on my previous post. Maybe, just maybe, this ‘problem’ will someday be resolved by Uncle Sam. At least I hope so.
Thanks again, Rich. Sam Henry 8-24-08
got my checks on wed august 20 for june 11 and june 12 dont think there is any need to worry!
I requested a payout from bodog. I finally recieved it 4 months later, and the check bounced.
Still waiting on mine given the run around like everyone else has heard. Is this a concern or what? I feel like I should understand their problems but just want some solid info or answers. It has been two months.
i request pay out on june 19, until now i still dont get any thing. it’s been 50 business day. it makes me worry so much.
I requested a payout on June 22nd. It was not a huge amount, but it took FOREVER.. Anyway I finally got it today on September 4th. Bodog always treated me well until they’ve had these problems recently so hopefully everyone will get paid. I just cashed it, so it better not bounce, I’ll come back and post if it does, but hoping all is well.
i finaly got my check from bodog on sept 3th, i hope it wont bounce.
[...] We have reported the problems at Bodog for some time now and many players have chimed in (see Recent Payout Complaints Valid). Bodog was using firstNet and the US government effectively closed them down back in June, causing [...]
I won a sum of money the end of July. I received a check 08-12-08 it bounced. Bodog sent a replacement check 09-08-08 It bounced.
Now I owe My bank and my account is under investigation. They have told me that most fraudulent checks come from Canada, which is the bank that they are using at this time. Can they do anything to me?
Hello Betty,
Sorry to here about your situation. I highly recommend You check out OSGA’s preferred list where You can enjoy safe and fast payouts. Bodog has had a ruff history, I think it finally has caught up with them.
Dear People who’ve been waiting for Payouts,
I filed for my payout from Bodog on July 16th, and because of some hoops they made me jump through, it did not get processed until July 29th. Now the current date is Sept. 22nd, and STILL NO PAYOUT!!! That’s just plain bad business. I understand the nature of the business isn’t exactly on the up and up, and the douche bag CEO, doesn’t give a shit about his customers. But C’mon, these people on the other end of the phone have to understand that they are going to be out of a job, if people are not recieving their payouts. Is there any good news, tell me SOMEONE has recieved a check.
Hello Tommy,
Yes, People have been getting paid. We had several complaints in the last two weeks from players who had been waiting since June! All but one of them got a check within the last week. There is a light at the end of the tunnel. If you would like our assistance, please become a member and use the Commplaint Form in the Member Zone.
We will be happy to check with Bodog on your behalf.
Oddsmaker just bounced a 400 dollar check to me. I called and they sent me to there processor, they siad there was fraudulent activity on the account and they closed it, leaving me with a bank acccount of -140, I am still waiting for this to be addressed but will infor if things get cleared up. By the way the bank processo was royal helix i believe.
I just had a check from Oddsmaker.com bounce… was told everything is going to be ok… what do I do? oddsmaker would not help me… told me to call 1 518-314-1269 and talk with processor? have i been scammed out of my initial $1000?
Hey Jimmy,
We checked with Oddsmaker regarding your (and others) bounced checks. Apparently, one of thier check processors had a bank account closed. Oddsmaker told us that anyone affected is given the processors direct number (we assume the one above) to call and a new check is resent right away via courier.
Players are urged to destroy the existing checks once new ones arrive.
Please remember that money processing issues are the #1 problem in the industry. Oddsmaker has been doing a solid job in spite of several processing problems. We would expect that a new check will arrive and will clear.
Let us know!
Received a 400.00 check from Bodog 2 weeks ago and noticed today the check was returned and I was hit with a 28.00 fee. They assured me if I re cashed the check everything would be good. Does this sound legit?
I had the same problem with a $1000 payment at Oddsmaker.com. I made the withdrawal at the end of October and the check arrived just before the 15 day window elapsed. The check was from Royal Helix Systems and they were based out of Canada also. The check posted right away but it bounced about 7-10 days later. I threatened to dispute the charge and the “head of security” called and emailed me. Said “If I didn’t dispute the charges they would see that a new check was issued” and provided me with the number to the payment processor. I have not contacted them just yet.
Has anybody received a valid payment from Oddsmaker recently, this was my first attempt at withdrawal so I would like to know if I am wasting my time with them.
Hey Guys,
Andy - Your Bodog check should clear if you redeposit it. Once the funds are in your bank account, then fax a bank statement to Bodog. They should reimburse you the $28 fee.
BG - We posted just last week (above) regarding Oddsmaker. One of thier check processors had a bank account closed. Contact that processor as per their instructions immediately and get a new check sent. Reports are this happens pretty quickly. Destroy the old check once the new one clears.
Has anyone experienced problems w/ Bodog “stop payment” on a check?…Because I bank through my family business,I could not cash it there due to discrepancy. After going to 4 different check cashing places with no luck, I resigned myself to open a personal account to cash it. In the mean time,I asked a Bodog rep. if I could just have a stop payment put on it and transfer funds back to my account. She said 24-48 hours, and I said fine do it. Then next day an email said 1-3 days, then after 3 days I inquired, and I got an “it takes some time”. I ask how much, and inform them I have already been told this and that. So, I get another email,saying up to.but not usually 10 days. Well, 10 days has passed, so I inquire again, and now it is up to 15 days. All to do something that is electronic, and instantaneous. I am told something different every time,and it was their bogus info that got me into this mess.
I wonder,how is it that a payout can be requested,approved,the check cut, and sent to anywhere on earth with in a week, but a simple confirmation on a “stop payment” takes forever with them, especially since the bank gives confirmation as soon as the”stop payment” is requested
Bodog is not reputable. Good luck withdrawing your winnings. I am having no luck doing that. If you plan on losing all the time and never expect to withdraw any money, they are the place for you. Good luck.
So is there any reptable sites other than Bodog? I have ben using Bodog for a while, but would like a site more trustworthy (if its not).
Hey John,
There are a handful of extremely reputable sites and many others that are turstworthy. Check out the Sportsbook List and look for places that are rated Elite - they are the cream of the crop.
I finally got paid checks cleared but have not gambles there since all the hassle. If there are so many problems with a withdraw why is bodog on the preferred list of osga?
Hey Guys:
I recently made a deposit via credit card for $250 to Oddsmaker.com. I doubled my money on the casino in a day and requested a payout of $500. The orginal deposit has not yet gone through and is still pending. After reading about Oddsmaker.com after the fact ( my bad for not doing this ahead of time) I realize the place is a scam and very few people ever get paid or they do get paid but the check bounces and it is a bigger hassle.
That being said, am I better off just disputing the deposit through my Credit Card company immediately in assuming I will never get paid or will have bounced checks, and forget my $250 winnings and just get my original deposit back. Or do I take an outside chance that they send me the $500 in 2-4 weeks and that it clears, but at which time I probably have lost my ability to dispute the original charge with my CC company?
I guess being a gambler I have to bet on whether I will get paid or not. For once in my life I prefer the safe route and would be happy just getting my original deposit back.
Any advie is greatly appreciated.
Tuc
Hey Tucker.
You may be jumping the gun here a bit. OddsMaker, though having some difficulties, does pay. I certainly would not charge back, unless this whole thing goes further south.
They are currently a little slow with checks and waiting for a card to clear is pretty standard in the industry. Give them the beneift of the doubt for at least a week or so . .
If you would like to shoot us an email with your issue, we will be happy to look into it for you.
osga (at) osga.com
Does anyone have experience with Bodog’s cc verification process that is required for payout? They want a photocopy of ID and a copy of the AMEX I used for original deposit. Is this safe? It doesn’t feel safe, but I want to withdraw more than $1K.
Thanks.
Hey Ben,
Almost every sportsbook out there will ask you for this type of information when you request a payout. It is to combat fraud and unfortunately is very common when you use a credit card to deposit.
Bodog has been doing this for years and your information is secure there. To add a little comfort level, black out the drivers license number on your ID - it is really needed for address verification. They may also ask you to fill out a credit card authorization form. Again, this is pretty standard operating procedure.
I agree with ben I do not feel safe sending the info that they ask for. My mailing address is different than shows on my drivers license is that going to be a problem?
The reason I want to withdraw my money from bodog is their poker is unrealistic way too many big hands designed to increase the pot. I am on full tilt and pokerstars and dont find that problem on those sites. TY
Hello John,
Of course we understand your hesitation at sending your info, but your info is like gold to these online outfits. We have not heard of any issues with identity theft, etc with reputable places like Bodog. You can certainly black out your DL number. The online company should already have all of the other information located on the DL except for your picture and birth date.
However, the difference in your driver’s license and current address may make things a bit more difficult for you. Be prepared to send a copy of a utility bill to verify your current address.
It would also be great if you could post a few sentences about the ‘unrealistic’ aspect of Bodog’s poker game. We have heard of activity like this and would appreciate some input from the public here.
has anyone been paid with oddsmaker..are they always slow to pay
I am currently waiting on Oddsmaker to complete a payout (ID 549320139). The Pay out was “processed” already, but I have yet to receive any email asking for ID, address verification or whatever, and in all three chats with customer service I have been told they are just “waiting on the cashier to release the funds”. Who is this mythical cashier? Why would you say a payout is processed when it isn’t any closer to my hands today than it was before hand?
bodog has treated me good last year iwon 3000 dollars and received my check in a couple months yeah long wait but i got it my complaint is i was told buy a woman at customer service i would receive a bonus for 20 bucks for a problem after my deposit weeks ago now no bonus and i got upset and wrote an email im am not calling no more to talk about this and they sent back reply then it wont be resolved i think it should have been more like we realize we are having difficulties giving you a bonus and then said can you please contact us i deposit 25.00 dollars to 50.00 dollars everyday loyally and this 20 .oo dollar bonus will stop me from ever making a deposit again step it up bodog some of your customer service workers are not helpful or honest not all of them mr ayres needs to handle peoples issues and his unprofessional employees
Anyone else having problems with BETUS? They are using stall tactics on my payout. I requested payout on Sept 30 which was approved and told check will arrive in 10 days. I just inquired yet again and they told me they can’t locate the tracking number of the payment.
Total joke and run around… Guess my money is gone… DO NOT USE BETUS… Total scam site@!
Anyone else having problems with BETUS? They are using stall tactics on my payout. I requested payout on Sept 30 which was approved and told check will arrive in 10 days. I just inquired yet again and they told me they can’t locate the tracking number of the payment.
Total joke and run around… Guess my money is gone… DO NOT USE BETUS… Total scam site@!!!
Hey Tommy,
Please contact us to help you out with your situation at BetUS. We have had a couple of compaints on them since the season started and have been able to cut to the chase pretty quickly.
Email us at osga@osga.com or give us a ring at (877) 674-2238.
I have been having a lot of luck with Bodog of late. I have requested a check payout on the 1st of every month for the last 4 months, and the checks have arrived the same week, and cashed with no problem. Anyone still having bodog problems?
I recently received a payout from BoDog and the check bounced. My bank said the accout it was written against was closed. BoDog to call back when I receive the check back from my bank - which will take 7-10 days. There was no customer service on their end to investigate.
Hello Patrick,
We are sorry to hear that a check bounced on you. Many sportsbooks have ongoing issues with their processing and unfortunately, it is industry-wide.
If you are still having an issue once you get the check back, please let us know. We will be happy to assist you with this issue at Bodog.
just got my check called the bank said the account is valid and the money is thee, however this bank doesn’t have a loction close to me and took it to a check cashing place and they said it was fraudlent, called the processor and they assured me it wasn;t but I can not get it cashed. what should i do.
I posted a complaint about bodog a while ago since this time bodog has treated me well and has been very professional in handling my problems I can honestly say bodog may be a little late to pay its players but I guarantee you they will pay you and everyone i have referred to bodog has been paid and treated as good as i have been if not better i do recommend bodog when it comes to good customer service and payouts good job bodog keep up the good work k salvio
I won about 19K in betting the Saints in preseason odds. I’ve been trying to get my money from sportsbook.com for 2.5 weeks now, and despite providing them with the information they asked for, I keep getting more and more emails from them saying they need to verify my account…
Hello G Rob.
Sorry to hear of your difficulties at Sportsbook.com. They have been doing a much better job with payout the last several months. If you would like our assistance, please fill out our complaint form.
Non-Member complaints are handled in the order that they are received, after all Member issues have been looked at.
i have had a bodog account for a few years and lately have been playing quite frequently more, I cashed out 2550 and recieved that fine and then i tried to cash out two checks for 3000 and they said accepted until i tried to check on them they said they were on hold for fraudulent activites, which they said was from an usual way the game was played on the casino. They had no comment on the situation except to say your fund have been frozen until the situation was resolved and when inquiring information my father was given to a man who had no answers and just tried to brush me off..caution bodog has no problem taking your money but when it comes to paying out they have no problem holding on to your money
I requested a payout from Bodog. They sent me an email a couple of days later with the tracking number as the check was sent Certified Mail. After a few days when I checked the tracking online at usps.com, it said Undeliverable As Addressed. I called my Post Office and they said there was an issue with the addres the envelope was sent to, and they returned it to the sender. I called bodog and they said the check was never returned to them, so they will not issue it again. Bodog is screwing me out of my winnings. Stay away from them!
I do not like all the documentation either but I guess Bodog needs to be careful. They told me they cannot clearly read the info I sent and I finally got someone to verify and they sent the check. I took it to the bank to cash today and said I would have to wait until it clears because it’s on a Canadian bank. Great
Now I wonder if it will ever clear the bank. Will see, but what a hassle!
I have cashed 5x with bodog in past 8-10 mo. Bank will hold the check (because its not a US bank, hell my bank held a money order drawn from THEIR bank once) but normally clears in 2 days.